Democrat Who Flipped a Red Seat Reveals the Shocking Question Voters Kept Asking (w/ Zack Mullock)

Almost nobody thought Jeff Van Drew’s seat was in play. But Zack Mullock pulled off one of the election’s biggest upsets, defeating the Trump loyalist in a supposedly safe Republican district. The congressman-elect joins Tim Miller to explain how he won over Republican voters, why Trump’s ICE crackdown and Iran war became political liabilities, and what Democrats need to do with their new majority.

2026. 11. 7.18:12

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Tim Miller interviews Zach Mullin, the Mayor of Cape May who won a surprise victory in New Jersey's 2nd Congressional District. They discuss Mullin's background as a hotel restorer and former professional golfer, his motivations for challenging incumbent Jeff Van Drew, and his legislative priorities including housing affordability, healthcare, and ending tariffs.

핵심 요점 1Mullin's victory was unexpected by major analysts, with Cook Ratings considering the seat safe Republican until shortly before the election.

핵심 요점 2The campaign was primarily volunteer-driven, operating with only three paid staff members.

핵심 요점 3A primary motivation for Mullin's run was providing a different model of masculinity and leadership for the younger generation, contrasting with current macho attitudes.

핵심 요점 4Mullin identifies housing affordability as a crisis, noting that the average first-time home buyer is now 40 years old.

핵심 요점 5Ending tariffs is a high priority due to their negative impact on Canadian tourism, which previously accounted for 10% of small business profits in his district.

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Transcribed from “Democrat Who Flipped a Red Seat Reveals the Shocking Question Voters Kept Asking (w/ Zack Mullock)” by The Bulwark, who holds all rights to the original and has not licensed or reviewed this page. Rights holders can request removal.

This transcript was generated by speech recognition and the summary and chapters by AI, so they can contain errors. BestPodcast is not affiliated with the creator.

Hey everybody, it's Tim Miller from The Bulwark. We are continuing our series of inspiring and surprising Democratic winners from Tuesday. But could be more excited to introduce to you the mayor of Cape May and now congressman elect from New Jersey 2, it's Zach Mullin. What's up, man? Tim, thank you so much for having me. I am a huge fan, so it's an honor to be on here. I mean, how are you feeling? Like what you told you told me in the green room you haven't had a chance to process this.

Let's process it together. I mean, the Cook Ratings had you had this seat as a safe Republican seat up until Halloween when they're like, maybe it's a likely Republican seat. Well, it's a Democratic seat now. What's that feel like, man? Actually, Tim, you were one of the only publications that that gave me a shot, which was really awesome. You said that you should support these folks who have a chance to flip a red seat. And I can't thank you enough for that because truly that was during a time when no one else was giving me that shot and it's so it's been it's been incredible.

And and in all seriousness, I jumped in this race more out of principle than thinking that I could win and here we are. I mean, I do have a softness for mayors and you know, you went to the mount. So there were things I liked about your bio, but it was if I'm just being frank, it was really more about like I want anybody to beat the son of a bitch Jeff Van Drew. And anybody that was a Democrat could look at what Trump was doing to the country and say, I'm going to change I'm going to change sides and join them.

And not only am I going to join them, I'm going to become a cult member who goes along with everything that Donald Trump wants. Like screw that guy and and so I was thrilled to you know, try to give a little way I could like a little boost to whoever was challenging him and I was glad you were out there doing it. Like why did you decide to do it? I in all seriousness, I I and I have actually known Jeff Van Drew for decades. You know, he has served in other capacities, not just as congressman, but as in the New Jersey legislator, as a senator and such etc.

But I just felt like come that January is when I jumped in and I I felt like the direction of our country was just so wrong and I do I have three kids, 12, 10, and 8. My oldest 12-year-old is a a young man and you know, his president has been Donald Trump. You know, that is the leadership that he's looked up to and I see it in his buddies and things like that and that I and speaking of podcast this whole kind of manosphere macho attitude that I just feel like is so different than how I was taught to be growing up.

In what way do you see it in his buddies? Like what do you mean by that? Just this idea of like one-upping everybody and feeling like you're out on your own, nobody's there to help and I just that you know, to be tough you need to be mean and cruel and you know, what you see happening with ICE and and and frankly the president you know, selling Bitcoins and Bibles you know, I just feel like that is the leadership that this generation is looking up to right now and and I just want to make sure that those especially younger men saw that there is a different way.

You know, I grew up learning to turn the other cheek and to care for the you know, the least among us. So were you with your kids on election night? What was it like when you saw the numbers come in? You sent me an Instagram message on election day and I noticed I got a I was like going through the Instagram messages. I don't I I guess I I forget what what I was doing. I was like multitasking and I was like, wait a minute, this is actual Zach Mullin.

I got a here just a guy messaging me and you messaged me on election day and said you thought that you had a chance. So like take me through that. Like you're on election day, you felt like the numbers looked good then election night you're with your family. What was it like? Well, the early returns we were really building up a pretty strong you know, we were ahead significantly. You mean the amount of Democratic ballots that were coming in, you mean? Right. The Democratic ballots were looking really strong, but as election day went we were seeing those that lead go down and down and down to the point where we were we were down some 6,000 votes and the history in CD 2 here is in in New Jersey CD 2 is the independence, the unaffiliated vote with the Republicans.

So at that point I was like, oh, I don't think we're going to be able to pull this out and then shortly after 8:00 p.m. they started seeing what you know, who people actually voted for and obviously a lot of independents and even Republicans voted with us. I mean, I guess you're the mayor, so your kids kind of already see you as a politician, but I don't know what's everybody thinking about moving to D.C. Well, I mean they're not moving, but I mean about you moving, about being in D.C.

You know what I mean? They're all excited. They're excited. I mean, we got the late notice after learning that we were leading that the the governor was going to be flying the helicopter to to come to our our little neck of the woods. And so the kids were all ecstatic, you know. I mean, they they they were thrilled. Maikey Sherrill chopper to your victory party? Yes, she did. That's pretty cool. She's she's a helicopter pilot, Tim, you know. Yeah, looking for any excuse to get in the chopper.

All right, let's tell let's tell people a little bit about you. So before you got into all this, before you were the mayor, you were you were a golfer? I understand you were a golfer. One of the push polls that my opponent put out there was kind of like the negatives, you know, will you vote for Zach, will you vote for Jeff? If you say Zach, then you get all the the negatives. One of them was did you know he was a failed professional golfer? And my and my buddies said, you know, it is true, you know.

I mean, did you make the PGA? Uh Philly section, you know. It was a long time ago right out of college, you know. But I enjoyed it while it lasted, but it's been a long time. any big tournaments? No, no. Just just mini it's like a mini tour kind of stuff. But always enjoyed it and and and you know, You never got to meet Phil Mickelson, you never considered going to LIV? No. That is definitely that was that would have been a definite no. You did some like management of hotels.

So you've done some hotel restoration and as in Cape May, you built a new firehouse, a new library. So maybe your beat can be kind of some oversight over what the president's doing in Washington the next two years. I don't know what you think about his work on the golf course in the ballroom. Yeah, right. Well, I am a I am a licensed general contractor, so you know, we could maybe do a Cheesecake Factory or something would be fun. But um yeah, no I um we we actually some of the stuff I'm really proud of.

We we have we own the oldest hotel in Cape May. Cape May is the oldest seaside town on the East Coast. So it's got a really cool history. Historic preservation has been a big thing. But you know, we started the Harriet Tubman Museum here in Cape May and the Cape May Arts and Science Center in in in Cape May Point, which is been a really cool success. Actually converting the Sisters of Saint Joseph a nunnery into like an environmental and scientific research center, which has been really really cool.

Does Harriet Tubman have a connection to Cape May? Yeah, Harriet Harriet Tubman worked in Cape May for several summers saving up money to you know, go and and and free enslaved people in Maryland. Wow. Yeah, really really really cool history. Yeah. Um let's come back and check that out. I spent some time in Rehoboth because that was the gay beach town where D.C. gays went to. I never made it across the the bay or whatever over to Cape May. So next time through with my daughter I'll take her to Cape May.

The ferry's the ferry's really cool, Tim. You'd love it. Hang out the gays in Rehoboth and ferry over to the Harriet Tubman Museum. That's a full day. That's nice. So you're going to D.C. Let's talk about your politics. Like where do you think where do you fit in? Are there who who in Congress are you trying to model yourself after? Are there big issues you're thinking about? What's interesting about CD 2 is you know, it was kind of gerrymandered in 2018 or 2020 to kind of help the Republicans in this area.

But for years it was you had Frank LoBiondo kind of a moderate Republican and before that was Bill Hughes who was a Democrat and a real statesman and but I think what CD 2 has produced is these I would call them bridge type statesmen who do work with everybody, you know. And I think that's exactly as you know, what we need in Congress right now is people who are willing to cross the aisle a little bit. But on the principled stuff and and the big big stuff right now, I know I know Democrats including myself are not really in the mood to talk about compromise because there's so many things that we have to get to work right away.

I mean, I I obviously campaigned on doing everything we can to end the war in Iran, to end the tariffs, which by the way, Tim, the tariffs have a unique issue here in in in CD 2 and and affecting tourism of Canadian tourism, which for a lot of us made up 10% of our you know, of our profit was Canadian tourism and that was basically 0% this year, which obviously that hurts a lot of small businesses in this area. So ending those things immediately and then getting on to tackling the healthcare issue and I I consider the housing issue a crisis, you know, the average first time home buyer being 40 years old.

I that is something that we have to change immediately. I noticed Ted Cruz talking about that too and I don't you know, I don't think there's going to be a ton of opportunity for bipartisan deals with Donald Trump least the next two years. That's nice aspiration for you for the future, but how's it could be one? I mean, Trump likes to build stuff, considers himself a builder. You know, Democrats know that there's a problem and you know, maybe there is something that can be done there the next two years to at least start down the path because we're way behind on that front.

You were talking about ICE and you said this what's happening right now with masked agents in our streets with no accountability, with no recording devices. It's insanity and it's wrong. We need to you know, do immigration enforcement with decency and dignity. And I think this is one of the big questions when you guys get in there. I there's just a ton of funding for ICE right now. We JB Pritzker on earlier this week who was saying like if necessary, maybe even there should be a government shutdown to try to take away some of the funding from ICE that has been going to these assaults on people in our communities.

I'm just wondering where you're at on that. Honestly, I think fiscally conservative thought is how much money is being spent forgetting for a moment the the lack of dignity and decency, but the amount of money is absolutely insane. And you know, I got to tell you being in a purple area as we are here, people were upset with the immigration policy of this. I mean, it I think was at one point of advantage to to the president and right now I think it's a major disadvantage because they thought what people were doing was absolutely cruel and and and frankly a waste of money.

So I I would certainly support you know, that the amount of money being spent right now is just absolutely insane. And then the cruelty is again, you know, in South Jersey we have a lot of farm country and who's out in the fields? You know, I mean, it's as if we don't want to recognize that, but that that's who's in our food system. Dana Perino was on Fox the other night talking about how the Democrats say they want to end the Iran war, but what are they going to do?

Defund the troops. I'd like to see them try that. I don't know. I mean, what what do you think about you know, how you can put pressure on the administration to bring that craziness to a to an end? I mean, the the voters couldn't have been more loud and clear in regards to the the war in Iran. I mean, I I had a lot of Republicans telling me it was time to wrap up the war in Iran and frankly, by the end of the campaign even my opponent was talking about wrapping up the the war that he had just voted for.

Um but you know, so I 100% I will do everything to wrap up the war in Iran. I think it's it's it was a war of stupidity from the beginning and we should not waste any more time and and as I've heard you talk about many times on the show, I mean, we we we were told this the nuclear capabilities were obliterate obliterated you know, months before we got into involved in Iran. So I think wrap it up as quickly and as safely as possible. Where you at on other foreign policy stuff and kind of what you think would be you know, smart priorities for the country as we start to reassess all that.

Well, I think one of the things we're going to have to look at what is going on with Russia and Ukraine and the deals that have been happening with this you know, the president's son-in-law. I I think you know, a strong message that I received from the voters is they want a sense of justice in all of this and Melania had a child thief at the White House this week. I don't know if you saw that. The like one of the Russian you know, Carol Divincenti was as and they're stealing Ukrainian children there at the White House giving Melania like a present and she's thanking the Russian Human Rights Federation.

There has to be oversight and accountability in all of that all that. The number one question I I received on this campaign which still surprises me was in some format, will you be a decent human being? Not a policy question, not you know, will you be a decent human being? I don't think in any other election would that have been the number one question by far that I received. And I think it has to do exactly with things like that. It was just like will you do what's right for humanity?

Um and I just think we we as a country need to be that shining city on a hill. And and we should strive to be that and I think that resonated with a lot of Republicans here in South Jersey. We can be decent and like tease your opponent a little bit. Can we be decent? I mean, what did you think about his outfits? He had some interesting outfits that he liked to wear. I I I said to some of my supporters, some tailor is losing a lot of money with especially with me because I'm almost the complete opposite.

So I've been told I need to up my game a little bit to be honest with you. He a lot of time and effort to like look like a little marionette doll in like a fancy little three-piece suit. I don't know, it's tough. I'm hopefully he can take some time to to reflect on the sartorial choices with his free time next year. All right, what else haven't I asked you about? What you know, what what else are you kind of thinking about as you make this trans this pretty unexpected transition?

Yeah, I I just think I mean, obviously the Democrats have such an opportunity here and but I will tell you we're not going to have any honeymoon. I'm I'm aware of that. We've got a we we've made promises on the affordability aspect of certainly and we're going to have to deliver and we're going to have to deliver quickly. I I think and and I do think some of those are easier in regards to some of the things that we're just trying to wrapping up the war in Iran and and trying to end the tariffs as as quickly as possible.

But I think after that is when we really have to work together to solve the healthcare crisis, you know, and and and again, for me, housing in South Jersey is a really big deal. It's it's like so many people can't afford to live in the communities that they grew up in especially along the shore. We have a problem with the brain drain and and even you know, our one university Stockton University is having some real difficulties right now. So those are some big issues that we're going to have to work on right away.

Were there any tears in the Molin household over the last week? Tim, I'll tell you one little embarrassing one first off. I apparently didn't have Mr. Van Drew's private cell phone in my number. So I just saw his name kind of come up as a text message. I answered it and he called very early in the evening and I didn't expect it and and he was crying? No, he not him. That's going to be the story I tell people. You know, you can't ever let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Sorry, go finish up. Everyone kind of looked at me like, what was that phone call and I said it was congressman Van Drew conceding. And the whole place erupted. But I got to tell you also just I I was interviewing in a coffee shop with the Philadelphia Inquirer yesterday and it's just been meeting meeting meeting phone call phone call and then I had this reporter and she's we had a 20-minute conversation, everything was normal, had a good you know, conversation and then she said, how do your parents feel?

And I just in that moment realized I haven't processed my emotions and I just started tearing up in the middle of a coffee shop with this reporter. I said, I'm sorry, I have to compose myself for a moment here. But yeah, so all exciting stuff. That's sweet, though. You know, I think my win was so unexpected for so many people that people are just blown away and and to tell you we had thousands of volunteers. I mean, Tim, I had three staff members. That was it.

That we had three paid staff members. Everything else was volunteer because that's all the fundraising that we could we could afford and so it just was, was you you know, know, an an incredible incredible moment. moment. Man, well, I'm really proud of you. It was very moving to get to get your message on Election Day and I started to get nervous for you a little bit after the first batch came in and then I had a big wave of happiness and and relief come in. So, I'm happy to get to meet you now and I guess now we can have a beer in DC.

How about that? I literally I listen every day. So, I appreciate you and and I probably stole a few of your things along the way for the campaign trail. So, thank you. I hope so. What else am I doing out here? If you didn't steal you can steal anything you want, man. No need to credit. All right? All right. Thank you, man. That's Zack Malick New Jersey 2 Mayor of Cape May. Got to find a replacement for that job because now he's congressman elect. Thanks so much everybody.

Subscribe to the feed. We got more of these coming. We got a bunch of feel good wins. So, stick around. Subscribe to the feed.

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