HPR4753: HPR Beer Garden 22 - Bitter

This show has been flagged as Clean by the host. With Tuxjam Half-cut in Manchester now just a memory, the trio fo Kevie, Dave and Paul sample the classic English beer style known as Bitter. Kevie tries out Chiltern's Beechwood Best Bitter , Dave samples Morrison's Original Bitter and Paul opts for Boddingtons Draught Bitter . Connect with the guys on Untappd : Dave Paul Kevie The intro sounds for the show are used from: https://freesound.org/people/mixtus/sounds/329806/ https://freesound.org/people/j1987/sounds/123003/ https://freesound.org/people/greatsoundstube/sounds/628437/ The next 3 beer styles to be reviewed: Pale Ale Trappist Dunkel Provide feedback on this episode .

2026/10/21再生時間は不明です

概要

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Kev, Paul, and Dave discuss the history, production, and tasting of traditional British bitter ales, exploring their evolution from medicinal tonics to a staple of English pub culture.

要点 1The term bitter originated with customers in the early 19th century to distinguish pale ale from mild.

要点 2Historical medicinal tonics used by monks and ancient civilizations for digestion are early ancestors of modern bitters.

要点 3British sailors in the 17th century added herbs and spices to their ale to combat scurvy, helping popularize bitter flavors.

要点 4Bitter is traditionally cask-conditioned and ideally served at a cellar temperature between 11 and 14 degrees Celsius.

要点 5The CAMRA organization sparked a 1970s resurgence of interest in traditional cask-conditioned ales like bitter.

要点 6Modern bitters range in strength from under 3% to 7% ABV, with anything stronger typically classified as a strong ale.

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Adapted from “HPR4753: HPR Beer Garden 22 - Bitter” by Hacker Public Radio, licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.

This transcript was generated by speech recognition and the summary and chapters by AI, so they can contain errors. BestPodcast is not affiliated with the creator. These adaptations are available under the same license.

This is Hacker Public Radio episode 4753 for Wednesday the 21st of October 2026. Today's show is entitled HBR Beer Garden 22 Bitter. It is part of the series Beverages. It is hosted by Kev and is about 38 minutes long. It carries a clean flag. The summary is Kev, Paul and Dave talk about bitter ale. Hello and welcome to episode 22 of the HPR Beer Garden. And sadly, we're back in our usual places. The reason I'm saying sad is last time we met, it was in person and we enjoyed one or two ales across the same cable, but it was a great time.

But now we're back to our own desks. What can life gets in the way of that, doesn't it? Yes, indeed. I am joined though by the full cohort who was able to be with us tonight. So I have got Dave. How are you tonight, Dave? I am very well indeed. Thank you. How are you? Very well, yes. Excellent. Still still back and Manchester is still fresh in the mind. So yeah, I really enjoyed it. And we're also joined by Paul. How are you tonight, Paul? I'm very good and I'm very happy to say that we actually have some Stour way weather here now.

We've had a bit of rain, which is good for the garden. Yeah, if if it's going to make any difference. We've never stopped having Stour way weather up here. So I'm I'm still looking going flipping ground so dashed wet. I need to dig another drain here. The problem is getting round the time to do that. Yeah, but do you have to go out in the rain to do it? Yeah, which makes life more awkward. Yes. Just have a beer instead. Absolutely. And speaking of having a beer, we're going to go for a pint of the traditional tonight.

We are looking at the classic English beer bitter. So, Dave, what are you going to tell us about bitter? Well, not to spoil the beginning of this, but I learned something about bitters when I did my research earlier in the week. And it kind of took me by surprise. But before we get on to that, bitter has a long and intriguing history deeply rooted in in British culture. Originating in ancient times, these bitter and aromatic concoctions have undergone various transformations over the centuries. In the early day, bitter was primarily used for medicinal purposes, that to be fair, it still is now.

The concept of using bitter substances for health can be traced back to ancient civilizations such as in Egypt and Greece. The Egyptians, known for their advanced medical knowledge, used bitter herbs and spices to aid digestion and treat and treat various ailments. But during the Middle Ages, monks and herbalists began experimenting with different combinations of bitter ingredients to create medicinal tonics. These tonics were believed to have potent healing properties and were commonly used to treat digestive disorders, liver ailments and even melancholy. As time moved on, bitter evolved from being solely medicinal to becoming a popular beverage.

The transformation for that began in the 17th century when British sailors started adding various herbs, roots and spices to their daily ration of ale. And this practice not only enhanced the flavor of the ale, but also helped combat conditions such as scurvy and other ailments prevalent amongst sailors during long sea voyages. The inclusion of bittering agents in ale gained popularity among sailors and eventually made its way to the general population. Brewers began experimenting with different combinations of bittering ingredients such as wormwood, gentian root and citrus peels to create uniquely flavored ales.

By the 19th century, bitter had become very much a staple in British pubs. Breweries started producing specific bitter named often after the town or region they originated from. And these classic British ales gained a very loyal following with their distinct bitterness and complex flavor. As the Industrial Revolution took hold, brewing technology continued to advance. Brewers started using steam-powered equipment, enabled them to produce larger quantities of beer. And this led to the widespread availability of bitter throughout England, making them very much a staple of British pub culture.

The popularity of English bitter skyrocketed during the 20th century. World War 1 and World War 2 played a significant role in this surge in popularity. Soldiers serving abroad developed a taste for bitter, and upon returning home, they sought out the familiar flavors that they had grown fond of. In addition to returning soldiers, the growth of pub culture in England also contributed to the popularity of bitter. Pubs became social hubs where people gathered to enjoy a pint of beer, and bitter became a favored choice due to their balanced bitterness and drinkability.

In the 1970s, CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale, brought a renewed interest in traditional brewing methods and flavors. They were advocating for the preservation and promotion of cask-conditioned ales, including bitter, which were at risk of being overshadowed by mass-produced lagers. And this led to another resurgence of the interest in bitter, with more and more breweries focusing on producing higher-quality, more traditional ales. Today, though, English bitter continues to be cherished by beer enthusiasts worldwide. The fascinating history of bitter from its humble beginnings to their popularization in England is showcased the enduring appeal of classic traditional British ales.

Whether it's enjoyed in a traditional English pub or enjoyed in the comfort of your own home, a pint of English bitter is a testament to the craftsmanship and legacy of British brewing. If you've ever heard anybody in a bar say, bitter, ooh, don't like that, I'll just have a pale ale instead. Well, the term bitter it was actually originated on the customer's side of the bar, not on the brewery side. Bottled products are usually referred to as pale ales, whereas the draft products are usually referred to as bitter.

And the term bitter has been used in England to describe pale ale since the early 19th century. And although brewers used the term pale ale before the introduction of pump clips, customers in pubs would ask for bitter to differentiate it from mild. By the end of the 19th century, brewers had begun to use the term as well. And that's the bit I didn't know, that basically bitter and pale ale is essentially the same thing. Bitter is traditionally cask-conditioned and is either dispensed through a tap in a cask or by a beer engine.

Nice. The cellar temperature between 11 and 14 degrees Celsius. Bitter can have a great variety of strength, flavor and appearances from a dark amber color to a golden summer ale. They can be anywhere from under 3% by volume or as high as 7% with premium or strong bitter. Any stronger than this and the beer itself would have to be referred to as a strong ale rather than a bitter. The color itself can be controlled also by the addition of caramel coloring. And I actually recall Kev, we had a conversation in another beer style about whether coloring and and flavoring were added to augment the flavors and appearance of certain ales.

The bitter style could be considered similar to the IPA style of beer, although bitter is inherently much less hoppy than IPA. So that's as much as I got to in terms of research. It was very interesting actually to try to go back and find out the history of of bitter. I wonder if if you've got any additional nuggets to add to that, Kev. You probably have. Well, I've just got one wee thing in that yes, you are right in that in the 19th century, right up until about 19 the early 20th, very early 20th, they were actually identical.

It was the reason pale ale and bitters became slightly became the the way they were was pale ale was actually designed to be sold in bottles and slightly higher ABV to a higher clientele, whereas bitter was more then this is where the split happened. It was kept as the pint in the pub and it was kept a wee bit weaker as well just because it was more regarded as a session ale as well. So that's the only thing that I would say that. So although they did start off, it was in the early 20th century, they actually split and became their own unique styles.

That's the only thing I would add to that. No, that's fine. You wherever you get your research from and you ask one review organization website, whatever, where this came from, you're going to get a different answer. That's just from my own. That's I can tell you that's actually from both the Beer Bible and Beer Tasting by Roger Protz. So that's that's from both of those. I'm looking forward to this, I must admit, because I do like a pint of bitter. Nice. Are you going to lead us on this?

Absolutely not. I've spoken. No, no. I think I was going to say Paul has been very quiet there. So I think he needs to do some of the talking. I think so. I think so. It's interesting because I I obviously bitter is one of those things where because not being a connoisseur or as educated as you guys are about different types of beer, I would always say that when I was at school in Petersfield many years ago, we used to go to a pub. I was already 18 at this point, I should point out, you know.

Um, and I think it's the Harrow Inn in Steep in Hampshire. And if my memory serves me correctly, they used to have a low shelf behind the bar full of wooden barrels, and they would knock the taps in, let the barrels stand for a couple of days, and then start pulling the beer off it. And in my head, that was always bitter. But I guess these days, if I was to if I was to go back and ask, it was probably a range of beer. But I always remember, I would have a pint of bitter.

So it was interesting. And obviously when when we said this episode is about bitter, and me being unprepared as always, went out to find some. And actually you can find bitter in the supermarket. So I have gone for something which is actually high-production, high-volume bitter, because I thought this is the sort of thing a lot of people will drink, and I will try it. What I've gone for is Boddington's. It doesn't have CAMRA label on the side, and I suppose our colleagues in CAMRA would probably turn their nose up at that.

Because as well as as well as being a bitter, I think it's got a widget in the bottom. Yeah, so it's going to come out like a cream flow or something like that. So I I was in I was in the pub last night because we went to a local pub to do the quiz. And it's so disappointing when you look at the selection that's available if you're drinking anything other than fake Italian lager. You know, you've got you've got um there's a fake Spanish lager, there's a fake Italian lager, there's a Carling and then and there was another one as well.

I thought these these are probably all brewed next to each other in a massive brewery somewhere, not a million miles away, probably in Manchester. And then from the ale side, we had Doombar, which I believe is shortly to be discontinued, I have heard. I don't know that's true or not, I don't know. And there was another Sharp's, I think it was another maritime Atlantic, Sharp's Atlantic. Yeah. And I went for the Doombar. So I think it's very sad that many many pubs in the UK these days, you can't even buy a decent bitter.

Anyway, so there is a widget in there. You know, I was expecting something because if you get Boddington's in the pub, normally it would come out and it looks the consistency looks like Guinness, doesn't it? But obviously it's a different color. But in terms of the pull. That's interesting. That's actually kind of ambery ambery by color. It's um this is by the way, this is 3.4% ABV. I did pick another another tin up as well, or another four tins of um I think it was Ashworth.

And that was actually 2% ABV. So I was very surprised about that. So I haven't I haven't tried it. I shall try that another time and report back. But uh it smells like a bitter. That's a good start. To be honest, I tend to drink things a bit stronger than this. And I suppose on a summer's day outside watching the cricket maybe or something like that, I could sit and drink this. But I would go for something with a bit more flavor, I think than this.

It's not unlikable, but it's not it doesn't for me, for my taste, it doesn't really set me on fire, if you like. So while Paul's enjoying the rest of that, Dave, what did you get? I really struggled to find a bitter that either we hadn't already done as something else or wasn't one of your mass-produced ones. And I'd wanted to try something different. So boy oh boy, have I gone for something different. I have gone for a shop brand bitter. 2.8% and I'm just looking at to see if there's anything written on the side of the can to give you any indication of its provenance and there is nothing.

This one is Morrison's. Morrison's own brand original bitter. Like I say, 2.8% which is a little on the lower side for what you could expect to get in a in a bar. And I was just saying before we started recording, I did make a bit of a faux pas because we were originally going to be recording this on a different day. According to my own notes, they do say that bitter is best served at what they call cellar temperature, which is around 12ish degrees. So I thought, well, I'll stick this in the fridge half an hour before we record and it should be at perfect temperature by the time we're ready.

I took it out the fridge about I don't know, three quarters of an hour ago. So it's actually been in there for two days. So that is probably a little bit on the cold side. So what I'm going to do because I have got myself the traditional dimpled beer glass, which I think is the only glass you should ever serve bitter in. I'm going to empty this one into it and then I might top it up with the slightly cold one just to bring the temperature down to where it should be.

So let's open that up. At the risk of plagiarism, that smells like bitter. Yes. Right, let's pour this and see see what it looks like. Oh, it's a lovely color. Incredibly gassy. No widget. No widget. That's a bit lively. That's got more of a head than mine had with a widget.

Not for long, I don't think. That is very quickly dissipating. But it has a beautiful golden amber color, very malty on the nose, but not really a lot else, which I'm not surprised at 2.8%. Let's see what it tastes like. That is surprisingly nice. To say this is as this is a shop brand, my hopes weren't high. My expectations were were fairly low. So in that respect, I'm actually slightly impressed. You can tell that it's a 2.8. It is quite watery, but it is very much in the in the sessionable range of ABVs.

I bought a four-pack of these, and I don't think I would have any problem finishing these off. Not tonight, obviously. I think it's a little bit a little bit excessive. Even even at 2.8%, I think you'd you'd be scuppered by the the sheer volume of beer before you got to the to the excessive alcohol. But it does have a really a really nice I'm not going to go any better than that, a nice flavor to it. But it is quite insubstantial. There's no body to it.

It is just literally fizzy water with bitter flavoring in it. But it's a nice flavor. For what it is and I think what it was intended to be, this is not a bad pint. Kev, what are you going to show us up with? I have gone for a Chiltern Brewery Beechwood's Best Bitter. That's what I've got. So I actually did buy one from the Co-op, as I said to the guys we were recording. Co-op their stuff's all done by Robinsons and it usually says it on the they've got a thing on the label the neck of the bottle saying and saying the brewery and it's nearly always Robinsons.

And I don' know what the heck I've done with the bottle. So but I'm not complaining because I do like Chiltern Brewery. Brewed with British classy Maris Otter and Crystal Malt, followed by a generous hop charge in the copper gives Beechwood its renowned nutty flavor and punch. Taking its name from the beechwoods around the brewery, which are synonymous with the Chilterns. It is our flagship beer. This one comes in at 4.3. I Nice smell bit of a smoke smoke came off off there. there. Again, it's very typically bitter.

It's uh it's got that malty and hoppiness. For those of you who had actually, if you're ever in Scotland and you want the equivalent of generic bitter, then just ask for a pint of heavy in Scotland. The big difference will be it'll be slightly sweeter than you're used to. Not mega sweet, not dessert stout stuff. There's maltiness in there, slightly toffeeish as well, but there's a bitterness balancing that in the back end. Kind of lively. I don't want to overflow onto my keyboard. Yeah, I kind of again quite an amber color this one.

A bit more yeasty from the nose on the glass, but the malt very malty is very much malty heavy is still there, but there's a slightly more yeasty note on it. Yeah, that's a really nice bitter. Malt forward. It goes into a kind of nutty flavor after that and there's a slight, just a wee bit of fruity bitterness on the back end. Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, this is my first time ever having this one. I've had plenty from the Chiltern Brewery before, but never their best bitter.

So, yeah, I would recommend this one. Hmm. It's worth giving that a try, but but you said 4. 4.2. 4.3. 4.3. So, that would probably be a bit more substantial, a slightly more chewy than the than the the ones that myself and Paul have got. Yeah. Yes, but don't think of it as chewy in comparison to stout or anything. It's it's It's not the kind of beer you'd stand a spoon up in. No. No, definitely not. But uh yeah. To be honest, I'm actually impressed. None of us have gone for the one that I was a bit worried somebody'd pick the Mr.

Smith's one that's available everywhere. No. No. Uh I have to say I am mightily impressed by the fact that your bottle um beer has completely and totally usurped Paul's in terms of the head. Mm. Given given that that Paul had you know some form of mechanical assistance on that cuz I mean even mine's gone completely. I don't think they'd even serve this in the Rovers Return to be honest with you. But uh um I I did what I said I was going to do, by the way.

This this was originally the unchilled bitter. So, I opened the chilled one and put that on top of it. And actually, it has improved it. It has improved it. It does taste a little bit less watery now, which is good. Well, apparently, I'm just actually looking at the thermometer in here, and it says here it's 13° and I didn't realize it was that cool actually. Doesn't feel that cool, but uh it says 13. So, apparently I'm at perfect bitter temperature in here. So, definitely don't need to chill it.

But you're not wearing a jacket and scarf. I'm not wearing a jacket and scarf no. Actually, I'll happily take the coolness today. I have been in front of a forge for most of the day. So, I will happily not be wearing I mean, my office thermometer says 32, but I'm pretty certain that's wrong. I hope it is. Yeah, I'm on 24 here. Yeah, that's probably closer to it. Cuz my my thermometer's right next door to the studio monitor, and that does kick off some heat. Hmm.

Right then, before we forget, Paul, are you going to score your So, if we're going out of let's if I score it out of 10, I think we should do that, yeah. I would probably struggle to give it more than five, yeah. I I would I would if it someone gave it to me, I'd drink it or under some circumstances maybe I'd but I wouldn't choose it. If I was at a bar with a range of other beers, I wouldn't choose it. Um maybe when I was 18 and you know, much younger in my beer drinking life, it was okay.

But for now, really, I'm used to drinking stuff with more body, more flavor, and it doesn't really set the pace on fire. So, I'll give it a five out of 10. It's not distasteful, but I wouldn't go for it from choice, really. So, Dave, what would you give your one, your Morrisons bitter? I was just having a quick look on the can to see if it gave any indication as to who brewed it. Because I went into this with a slightly lower expectation of say uh you know, a craft bitter or or something of that ilk.

Uh I'm going to actually score this slightly higher uh than I probably should do. If I saw this on the shelf in the supermarket, I would not necessarily get drawn towards it because bitter is not my my style of choice. Having said that, it was bitter that gave me my first multi-day hangover. How much did you drink? Oh, you do not want to know. It was it I I I might have told this story before. We were at uh it was a cribbage tournament. We just set up a league at the the Imperial Standard in Aldershot.

We'd played our first match and we absolutely pasted them. And everybody kept saying, oh, there's a pint behind the bar for you. And I was on I think it was Courage Best, which was for me a a good quality ale. I have no idea how much I consumed, but my body told me for the couple of days afterwards that it might have been slightly more than it was a good good for me. Anyway, back to the point. This is like I said, it is nice. It is a bit on the watery side.

You know, Kevy more than anybody else does that I do tend to go for the stronger ales because of the flavor, because of the character. This has the flavor, it doesn't have the character. It does not have the substance, and it is quite watery. However, I'm not going to score it down for any of that. I am going to give this a six and a half out of 10. It's not excellent by any stretch of the imagination. Not for the price, not for the ABV. It is significantly better than I was expecting it to be.

So, I I have to reflect that. Well, for my score, I'm thoroughly enjoying this. Like you say, I I can't score it too highly because you know, I'm the same as you guys. I prefer something stronger, I prefer something with a bit more body, a bit more complexity. But this is probably one of the better session ales I've had, I have to confess. It's got flavor. I almost want to critique it because it's not got a heavy body on it. It you know, you can't can't have a heavy body and be a session ale.

So, that's not fair on it. But at the same time, I've got to also compare it to how you know, I can't say oh well, it's five out of five cuz it's the best session or 10 out of 10 cuz it's the best session ale I've had. I don't think that's fair on the others that I've given 10 out of 10 during the past, which is very rare. Hmm. I think this will probably sit in that kind of 7.5. You know, that kind of ale. So, it's good, but it's a wee bit short of being great.

As far as a session ale, as far as a pint of bitter, it's probably the nicest I've had. If I'm not including ESBs in that, I've had a few very nice ESBs, which tend to be a bit stronger. Very nice indeed. Oh, hang on a second. We're about to get a live off-camera review. Thumbs up, thumbs down? Yeah, double thumbs up. Oh, winner. Absolutely. Young taste. Young taste.

It yeah, but this this is this is the the the the person that will come to a beer fest festival with us and keep up. That would be your weekend, then, Dave. Uh no, she's she's not coming to this one. Ah. No, it's just just me and Caroline are going to uh to this one. That it's interesting uh just thinking while you were talking there about flavor and about body and everything else. Do you think the demise of beer like pale ale, cuz obviously we did pale ale in the last episode before Manchester, is actually the fact that there's a lot more flavor and body and and a lot of the other beers that are now available that perhaps weren't available 20 years ago.

Y- yes. I think there is a there is an element of that. But as we've discussed in the past, if you're somebody that isn't aware or isn't willing to try the new world beers like your IPAs and dessert stouts and stuff like that that wouldn't the non-traditional things, then stuff like your pale ales, your stouts, bitters, the stuff that you would have got back in the you know, 30 plus years ago, they would still hold popularity, I think. Cuz I mean, I'll be honest, until I started going to beer festivals and actually drinking proper beer and then starting to do this series and started being educated on the beer and actually understanding where it came from and why it is what it is, I wouldn't have known better either.

But if you go to a pub and your choice that I mean, for example, I don't think the choices we had available on the yesterday evening with Doombar and Atlantic, I think both of those might be IPAs. And even those had a bit more flavor than this does. So, uh would you not end up in a situation where you drink that and then come back to your bitter and think mm bit flat, bit not really got the flavor and try something else? Well, I'm no, I'd I'd say no actually because uh Well, Doombar is an amber strictly.

Yeah. And I would say that is actually quite watery as well. Hmm. It doesn't have much of a body. Atlantic, I think is a pale rather than than an IPA. And again, that one doesn't have much life in it either. If I went into a bar and was presented with the usual array of rogue ales, oh, I'm going to start using that phrase from now on. Like Carlsberg, um John Smith's, Tetley, Strongbow. Yeah. Um I know Strongbow is not a beer. Wow. I haven't seen it in years.

I'm sure I haven't seen it in Scotland in years, I don't know, 20 years. That's what I was wondering. It's only up the road from me, the Tetley brewery. And and that was pretty much all that was on offer. I mean, if I had Nick Oil, I know Nick Oil is a bit of a diluted staple. It's it tends to be everywhere, particularly in London. I would go for that. But if all they had was those and then they had something like Doombar or Atlantic on there, I would probably have a coffee.

Coffee. Or a Guinness. Oh, I'd be more likely to have a Guinness Zero than a Guinness. Okay. Oh. That might be a conversation conversation for a different day cuz I do like Guinness Zero. Yeah. But I'm just getting back to the what you were saying, Paul. I just wonder is it the timing? Because you know, I can think back to when I started drinking and it was quite funny cuz all of the advertising you saw was either Guinness or lager. You know, that was it. You didn't see anything for any beers, you know, that apart from those.

And I remember going into the pub when I was when I was young, let's just say that. I was I was clearly always over 18. But you know, I went in and I remember being handed my first pint was a lager. And I was like, nah, it's cold, it's wet. There's not much flavor of this. And now, I'm not saying that I was a connoisseur from the minute I started. But I remember seeing another guy along the bar and he had this kind of brown colored pint.

And I was like, what's that? And I think it was either it was either McEwan's Export or Tennent's Special was on the other. And I just said, uh yeah, I'll have a pint of that. And I was like, there's flavor in this. There's actual flavor. You know, these all my mates were drinking lager. You know, and I'm going, there's but there's flavor to this. And their answer was, uh that's what the old guys drink. I'm like, I don' care. This is nice. The issue is, you know, let's just say 40 years ago, 50 years ago, that's what the old guys were all drinking.

And of course, then the younger ones come in, you know, kind of in at the 30 odd years ago. And they're saying, no, no, no, we don't want to be like the old guys, but we still want a session beer. And I wonder this is just because just now you've got lager takes up that session beer place. You've got your pale ales, your bitters. There's not really a such a big demand for them, your your milds even. Whereas when you do tend to get like a lot of the ones we got in Manchester, they were that bit stronger.

And they they weren't session ales. You know, they they were generally all but 5% or stronger, which is definitely out of session ale. So, I just wonder is it a case of you know, wait another 10 years. And of course, these young hip trendy lager drinkers are going to start getting older. And you've got a new generation coming I don't want the same as them. What's this bitter? What' this heavy? What's this mild? You know, is is it going to go full circle? Just just purely because the the young generation all was don't want to be like the older the ones that say they're 60 old.

Of course, the young generation think anybody over 25 is ancient. So, it's like what do you guys do? You know, I'm just wondering is that the reason. But the thing is what I really hope is that especially the craft brewers keep it alive. Because the worst thing that can happen is it dies off. Uh and the other problem is as well is if you've got stuff on offer, if you've got the likes of your Boddingtons, I would take. The one I really won't take is John Smith's.

I just don't like it. I really don't like it. At the times I've been given it, I'm like, okay, I will almost neck it just to get rid of it. Do you want another? No, please, do not give me this. But if that's what they're associating with it, you know, then people are going to go that bitter stuff's horrible. To come back to your comment about the craft brewers, though, I think the challenge for a craft brewer is they can they can make a barrel of bitter or barrel of pale, but if they can't sell it, it's it's no good if they haven't got an outlet where they can get where they can sell it.

Then it's it's of no benefit to them. You know, it's interesting. We have we have two craft brewers in Mold. One of them is, I would say, more traditional in their range of beer than the other. And I would also say they're probably more reasonable in terms of pricing because the young hip and trendy one, they will sell you a a small tin of like a 330 tin and it's like six or seven pound. Hmm. And yeah. You know, there's there's they they go through the whole range of of fruit beers and hazy beers and all sorts of things.

Not many of which suit my taste, to be honest. But the other brewery, the Hamer brewery, I would drink just about anything they make. And it's uh you know, it's all really tasty and the prices are quite competitive. And and you can get it fairly widely in the local area. So, I I think I think craft brewers we we can't expect the craft brewers to keep these beer types alive. It has to be done through people actually drinking it. It at least enough volume for the craft brewers to take it on.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that. Dave, do you have anything to add? I do not. I'm impressed, Paul. You've rendered Dave speechless. That's a first.

Right, so we did have some feedback from the Fediverse. I had one from actually somebody I hadn't spoken to in a wee while. Uh Johan Verhoeven it. Uh or actually, the reason I'm struggling to say his name is I've always known him as Johan V right the way back from the 90s. So, I'm I'm not that used to saying its full name. So, this is rather lengthy. So, he says he actually took up three posts on Mastodon. I listened to the HPR Beer Garden about Belgian blonde beer.

I found it very interesting because I hadn't heard of that style while living in Belgium. I suppose we just call it blonde beer. Well, yes, okay. I'll give you that. Uh mind you, I suppose I've rarely heard the term Scottish ale and I live in Scotland. So, I yeah, I suppose that does make sense. Um it it's also interesting that Kevy was tasting a Leffe. Leffe is indeed a beer that you can get anywhere in Belgium, but I avoid it when I can because personally, I don't like it.

I also think that it is not one of the beers that have been re-fermenting in the bottle during several months. The love bug was describing the particular form of the La Chouffe bottle. Uh maybe you'd notice that it's the same bottle as Duvel. Duvel and La Chouffe are both distributed by Moortgat. Anyway, Kevy and the love bug, if you ever visit Belgium region Antwerp-Lier, Herentals, let me know and I'll be happy to introduce you to some of the excellent local brews we have here because there are still much more than InBev, Moortgat, and Heineken here.

Yes. And I suppose that's your problem. But there's of course there's always better. But there's even out with your local area, we probably will struggle to get a lot of craft beers. But a different country, it's it's virtually impossible. But thank you. Thank you, Johan, for uh giving us that feedback. Definitely. Thank you. Yes. So, I don't think we have any more comments either. I went through the comments, but didn't see any new ones. Uh did anybody else get contacted? No, did anybody say anything to us in the Half Cut show or around the Half Cut time?

Everybody who was there said they listened to the Beer Garden every time it comes out and they absolutely love it. Yeah. Actually, to be fair, I haven't actually got uh we haven't got much negative feedback about it. I mean, I've I've actually had a comment I remember from somebody I can't remember who it was, but I do remember them saying, I don't even drink and I enjoy listening to the historical reference to the show. So, we're obviously doing something right. You know, so it's good. If you want to get in touch with us, then links to our Untappd profiles will be in the show notes.

Comment on the shows or even better, record a show yourselves. ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be the best thing to happen. Especially given I heard myself being released today, which made me think I didn't release a show today. Oh. Yes. So we are in the well into the reserve queue because the last time I checked I think I was about only one of 10 in the reserve queue. So yeah, that's getting low. Yes. Well, I've got one that I'm going to do with Caroline very soon.

I think there was a suggestion that those people that are currently addicted, can I say that, to Idle Fantasy may also be doing this episode as well. So yes. We we did talk about doing a contact Dave as well, didn't we? This week. This week is rapidly running away. Was was it this week? Oh crumbs. Okay. But we can do it next week. Oh yes, we did. Well, let's see what the what the banter like. Yeah. Give that give that a go. And I've I've got a show I promised to do a show about Morse, didn't I?

So Oh yes, you do. haven't done yet, so I need to do that as well. Absolutely. Yes, so if you're listening to this and you're thinking I could a show should record, then please do. Please do. We don't want this project to end because if HPR ends, sadly the Beer Garden ends with it. Yes. Or we just do we we break the rules and do one Beer Garden every day. It would really have to break the rules mega there, you know. It's meant to be two weeks in between.

Well, yeah, but it's either that or HPR ceases to exist. Cuz basically, in case you you're not aware, dear listener, if HPR runs out of episodes and they're unable to to fill uh a slot on the day that it is due to be released, that's it. Yep, the product the project ends. Yeah, what actually happens is it's not that the future shows get cut. The future shows all get put, they get pulled forward and they get released one after the other until those are done and they stop accepting submissions.

So that's actually how the the project will come to an end. We hope that does not happen. It's still not good, but it's not good at all. Right then, so we need to cheer up though a wee bit. So join us for another episode tomorrow of Hacker Public Radio.

You have been listening to the Hacker Public Radio podcast at hackerpublicradio.org. Today's show was contributed by a HPR listener like yourself. If you ever thought of recording a podcast, then visit the HPR site to find out how easy it really is. Hosting for HPR has been kindly provided by an honest host.com, the Internet Archive, rsync.net, and the HPR community content delivery network. Unless otherwise stated, today's show is released under a Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 4.0 International License.

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