MrBallen Podcast: Strange, Dark & Mysterious Stories

Guided by the Dead (PODCAST EXCLUSIVE EPISODE)

Today, I'm going to tell you two really unbelievable stories that, realistically, we don't know if they 100% happened. But in each story, there's pretty compelling witness testimony that something really bizarre actually happened. You can WATCH all new & exclusive MrBallen podcast episodes on my YouTube channel, just called "MrBallen" - https://www.youtube.com/c/MrBallen If you want to reach out to me, contact me on Instagram, Twitter or any other major social media platform, my username on all of them is @mrballen Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

6.11.202631:02

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Episodenzusammenfassung

This episode explores two bizarre stories involving potential supernatural intervention. The first concerns a Canadian fur trapper in 1949 who survived a freezing lake accident after a mysterious steam cloud led his team to safety. The second detail's a 2012 incident in Malaysia where a woman appeared to be possessed by the spirit of a deceased teenager, providing information that exonerated a driver involved in a fatal accident.

Kernaussage 1In 1949, fur trapper Amos Winterhawk fell through the ice of a frozen lake in British Columbia during -10 degree temperatures.

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Transcribed from “Guided by the Dead (PODCAST EXCLUSIVE EPISODE)” by Ballen Studios, who holds all rights to the original and has not licensed or reviewed this page. Rights holders can request removal.

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Today, I'm going to tell you two really unbelievable stories that, you know, realistically we don't we don't actually know if these 100% happened, but in each story there's pretty compelling witness testimony that at least suggests something really bizarre did happen. But before we get into today's stories, if you're a fan of the strange, dark, and mysterious delivered in story format, then you've come to the right place because that's all we do and we upload two, three, even four times every week. So, if that's of interest to you on a day that is not the follow button's birthday, go ahead and take them out to the Texas Roadhouse for dinner.

And while you're there, tell the wait staff it is their birthday so they come out singing and clapping super loud, completely embarrassing the follow button. Also, please subscribe to our channel and turn on all notifications, so you don't miss any of our weekly uploads. Okay? Let's get into today's stories.

One afternoon in February of 1949, a 17-year-old fur trapper named Donald Welborn sat on a sled behind his elderly trapping partner, a man named Amos Winterhawk, who was currently driving a team of sled dogs through the snowy woods of British Columbia in Canada. It was incredibly cold out, like minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit. So Donald, the 17-year-old, he was almost entirely bundled up in flannel and wool. And, you know, just the small part of his face that was exposed was burning from the cold and the wind.

So Donald was new to trapping, but Amos, on the other hand, was like a very seasoned pro who had been working for over 60 years on a very impressive 100-mi trap line, which was like a network of animal traps that he would periodically check for game. So he's like patrolling these 100 mi in in vicious weather for for 60 years. And since Amos's trap line was so long and also in such a remote region, Amos over the six decades he'd been out here, he had built all these small cabins every 20 or 30 mi or so along the line for shelter.

And now Donald and Amos were on their way to one of these cabins where they planned to spend the night. And so Donald, he's just a passenger in the sled, you know, he's he's right behind Amos and they've been, you know, going through the snow now for quite a while. And at some point, you know, he's he's sort of miserable, he's freezing cold, and he yells out to Amos, like, "Hey, you know, how much longer till we get to the to the cabin?" And Amos, without even turning around, just yells out, "Oh, the next cabin's 10 mi away, but it'll be even longer if you keep asking about it."

And Donald could tell like Amos was sort of giving him a hard time for basically complaining at this point. But Donald sort of worshipped Amos. I mean, Amos was like his his mentor. To him, you know, anything and everything that Amos said and did was like a learning opportunity. Fur trapping can be a very deadly profession. Often fur trappers work in fairly remote areas and in this case also in areas that had lethal temperatures. And Donald, who was really barely more than a kid at this point, you know, he viewed Amos as like the guy who was going to keep him from dying.

He's going to teach him how to survive out here and thrive in this line of work. And also Donald knew he really only had this one winter to soak in everything he could from Amos because this winter was Amos's last trapping season before he finally retired. His wife had passed away the previous summer, which had been devastating for Amos. And so it had prompted him to, you know, give up on on trapping and just plan on going back home, living a quiet life until he too was able to die, hopefully a peaceful death, at which point he'd be able to reunite with his wife again, which really was all he wanted.

And so now the sled, it finally emerged from this thick tree line and they they started making their way out across this expansive frozen lake. But before they gotten very far, like out onto this lake, they had to come to an abrupt stop because there was this huge snowdrift in their way that was so tall and so wide that they realistically couldn't just, you know, get around it. They basically had to to burrow their way through it. And so Amos, he turned to Donald and just said, "You know, hold the reins, stay here, like stay with the dogs and all our equipment.

I'm going to go clear a path that we can just go right through the snowdrift." And so Donald, you know, they had done this before, he had seen this play out before, and he's like, "Okay." So he gets up, he he sits where Amos was, he takes the reins for the dogs, and Amos, he climbs off the sled and he grabs the shovel, and he walks over to the snowdrift. And Donald, he's just watching this. This is not going to be some huge ordeal. I mean, the snow was not that heavy.

Might take a few minutes, but he could definitely sort of dig out a big enough path that the dogs could pull them right through. But as Amos is about to start digging, Donald hears this awful loud cracking sound. And then he watched as Amos just suddenly disappeared under the ice. The lake had cracked and he had fallen into the water. And so Donald immediately, he knows like if Amos has slipped under the ice, there's no way to get him out again. He's dead. But amazingly, he looked to where, you know, Amos had been standing and he saw Amos had not fully gone under the ice.

He was managing to hold on to the lip of the ice, but barely. Like the rest of his body is in the frigid water. Like he needed to get out of there immediately or he would freeze to death. That would be it. And so Donald, without any hesitation, like he had been trained for what to do by Amos if either of them in some ways had fallen into the ice, and that was the rescuer, they need to get on their bellies and basically scoot their way over to the edge of of the crack in the ice to sort of disperse their weight across the ice and then sort of pull the person while they're laying prone on the ice out of the water.

And so Donald, he he ditches the reins, he runs over, he's on his belly, he climbs over, Amos, you know, he's sort of in and out of consciousness, he grabs him, and he's a young kid, he's strong, and he starts sort of inching his way back, and he's pulling and pulling and he finally gets Amos out of the ice. And he gets him on the ice. The ice does not crack any further. And they're both for a second just heaving, you know, they're breathing heavy. Like Amos, he's out of the water, like, "Okay, we we've survived this."

But it's it's minus 10 degrees Fahrenheit out here. This is this is not over. The emergency is is still huge. I mean, if they don't get him warmed up immediately, he's going to freeze to death. And so Donald's like, "What do I even do?" And he looks over at Amos hoping Amos has an idea. But Amos, he he's passed out. He's unconscious. He's already clearly hypothermic. And from the last update he got from Amos, they're at least, you know, almost 9, 10 mi away from the nearest cabin.

There is no other cabins anywhere. They are totally isolated out here. And so Donald, he's thinking, "Well, I I have to at least try. I have to, you know, put him in the sled and at least try to get him to the cabin. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and just wait." And so he gets up and he drags Amos over and he puts him on the back of the sled. Amos is is totally unconscious. He's not responding at all. It's so cold and he's soaking wet.

And then Donald, he he hops in the in the sled. He grabs the reins and these very well-trained dogs, they're they're ready to go, the sled dogs. And Donald, he he called out like, "Yeah, like let's go, let's go." as he had seen Amos do countless times. But the dogs didn't move. They just stood there. They refused to move. And Donald, he's getting frustrated. Like he's looking back at Amos, like they got to go now. It's a long journey. They can't waste any time. and he's snapping the reins harder and harder and he's trying to get these dogs to move, but they just wouldn't budge.

And so in a panic, Donald, he climbs off the sled, he runs up to the dogs and literally starts trying to pull them forward, like to get them to move, but they just won't move. And that's when Donald sees the dogs. They're not just standing there doing nothing. They're standing there and they're looking out onto the lake, like in the direction where Amos had just fallen into the ice. They're looking in that direction. And Donald hadn't been paying attention to what they were looking at, but now he did.

He he turned and he's trying to figure out what's what's got their attention that is sort of keeping them from moving. And so he looks out onto the ice and all he sees is like this this cloud of steam that was sort of coming up from from where the break in the ice was, which wasn't unusual. Oftentimes the water underneath the frozen section of a lake when it's this cold out, the water, even though it's frigid, is still warmer than the air temperature. And so when there's a break in the ice, there's often steam that comes up and out of the water even though again, it's not really hot, it's just in contrast to the cold air.

And so Donald's looking and he sees this this steam cloud coming up off the water and he's like, "Why would that get their attention? This is this is this is not unique. Like that can't be it. Like what's going on here?" But then a second later, before Donald could get back in the sled, the dogs, they start moving. They turn and they start running straight towards like the break in the ice, towards this the steam cloud. And Amos is on the back of the sled. So the dogs are running off onto the ice.

Donald is not on the sled. He's just watching them run off and he's thinking, "Oh my goodness, they're going to run right for this cloud for some reason and they're going to go into the ice. And that's it. And then, you know, Amos is dead, the dogs are dead, I'm likely dead." And so Donald, he just starts taking off towards them because what else can he do? He's running after him and he's waiting. Like he's looking, you know, with with this horrible anticipation that they're going to all just plummet into the ice any second now.

Something weird happened. The steam cloud that was hovering over the break in the ice, it moved, but but not the way like wind would blow a steam cloud. It was almost like it was a a sentient being. It it moved with intention. Instead of being over the break in the ice, it began moving along parallel along the side of this huge snowdrift. And the dogs, they're clearly watching this thing and they turn and they start running after it. And this this cloud is is going down the length of this snowdrift away from the break.

So the the dogs and Amos on the back, they they don't go into the ice, they turn and off they go and then Donald, who's still running after them trying to get him to stop, he's he doesn't even know what he's looking at now. Like what is this cloud? He watches the cloud and the dogs and Amos on the sled, they go around the snowdrift and they vanish. And so Donald, like again, what else can he do but chase after him? And he runs all the way down the line of the snowdrift.

He turns the corner in the direction where the dogs and the sled and everything had gone. He turns the corner and he can't believe what he sees on the other side of the snowdrift that had been blocked from view when he was on the other side. There's a cabin, a cabin that he didn't even know existed, that Amos certainly didn't tell him about. And so Donald's like, "I can't believe this is here." Like the sled with Amos, the dogs, they're just parked right outside of this this cabin.

The the the steam cloud's gone. There's nobody in this cabin. It looks, you know, like no one's there. But no time to waste. Got to go in there and take advantage. And so he he runs inside the cabin. It wasn't locked. This was clearly like another trapper's cabin. Perhaps their trap line sort of coincided with, you know, Amos's trap line. And there was sort of a rule that Amos had told Donald that you never use other trappers' cabins unless you're truly in an emergency situation. And Donald's thinking this certainly qualifies.

And so he ran right inside. He got, you know, Amos in there as well. And there was all this firewood. There's a stove and he's he makes this big fire and before long Amos, who's, you know, been unconscious this whole time, as he starts to warm up, he sort of regains color in his face and he opens his eyes. It's like he's been brought back to life. And once Amos opened his eyes, I mean, Donald was so relieved. One, because he sort of loved Amos. Amos was his mentor and and he thought he was going to die up until like, you know, a couple minutes ago.

And so to see him opening his eyes, that was incredible. And also he thought, you know, my odds of survival are going to jump up tremendously if Amos is alive. Like he knows what he's doing out here. And so for for Donald, there was this huge relief. You know, as soon as he was back with it, Donald just told him everything that happened from when he fell into the ice to the dogs not moving to them them taking off and and seeing this weird steam that was like moving funny and it it actually led the dogs and he around the snowdrift to this cabin.

It was like a miracle. And so after Donald had told Amos the story, he expected Amos to have a a big reaction for a whole bunch of reasons. Like Amos, you basically nearly died and by some crazy anomalous, you know, miracle situation, we found this cabin and now you're alive. But Amos just sort of grunted and was like, "Meh. Okay." Like he wasn't surprised at all. And Donald, he couldn't help it. He was like, "Why are you reacting like that? What do you what do you mean?

Like this is not a no big deal. Like what do you think just happened?" And Amos, he was like, "You know, I I bet that that steam cloud was my wife. She probably knew I didn't want to die that way. And she was leading you and the dogs to this cabin. Had to be her." Now Donald didn't want to immediately, you know, try to debunk this guy's theory about his beloved dead wife. If he wants to believe it was his wife who saved him, so be it.

And so Donald just was like, "Yeah, I guess so. Must have been her." And then they both just sat back and continued to get warmed by the fire. Donald and Amos would recuperate and eventually they would leave that cabin and go right back out into the wilderness to finish their winter trap line tour. And they would make it through the rest of the winter without any more terrible accidents. But then the that summer, Amos finally got what he wanted. He retired from trapping. He finally went back home to a place where he had lived with his beloved wife for so many years.

And shortly thereafter, he would die a quiet peaceful death. And Donald, after Amos's death, he was obviously very sad. And he would go to the funeral to to pay his respects and to say goodbye. And while he was there, Donald overheard some of the other mourners talking about something really strange that they had actually witnessed on the day that Amos had died. So Amos had died at the home that he had shared with his wife. And that day after his death, you know, his friends and family were trying to figure out what to do with his his sled dogs, his very well-trained sled dogs.

And they said that they watched as that same day, shortly after Amos's death, the dogs just took off running, running off into the wilderness alongside this river and nobody could get them to stop. And they would say the strangest thing about it is the dogs didn't appear to just be blindly running off into the woods. They appeared to be chasing what looked like two clouds sort of hovering off the ground. And it's believed that those two clouds were Amos and his wife.

At 4:45 in the morning on April 9th, 2012, a 24-year-old man named Peter sat on the couch watching TV with his wife Anna in the town of Labis, Malaysia. Neither of them had been able to sleep that night, which happened a lot these days because they had five young kids who were always waking them up. And that morning, you know, by 4:45 or whatever it was, they had finally just decided to to give up on trying to sleep. And after all, it was almost time to get up anyways.

And so now Peter was, you know, still very tired and he was sort of zoned out as he was watching the TV. And as he was doing that, Anna, who was next to him, she she murmured something that he couldn't quite understand. And so Peter turned to see what his wife wanted and he saw his wife was like shaking. Like her whole body was shaking as if she was having a seizure, even though, you know, he had never seen his wife have a seizure before, she didn't have epilepsy or anything, but she very much looked like she was having a seizure and she's looking at him with this look of just absolute terror on her face.

And so Peter, he didn't know what to do if she was having a seizure. And so he just got off the couch and and he grabbed his wife and he sort of gently positioned her so she was laying across the entire couch. And he kept asking her like, "Hey, are you okay? What's going on? Like what's happening to you?" And Anna, while she continued to shake, she was trying to say something to Peter, like trying to tell him presumably what was going on. But Peter, he's listening really intently to her and it just sounded like what she was saying was was was gibberish.

She seemed frantic and incoherent and Peter just couldn't understand what she was trying to say. You know, at first he's chalking it up to she's having a seizure, she can't quite talk. But at some point, he realized that she wasn't speaking gibberish as she's shaking there on the couch trying to talk to him. She was speaking a different language, one that he knew she didn't speak. Anna was speaking Mandarin. And he only knew that because he he knew knew a a few few words words of of Mandarin.

Mandarin, but she was speaking in basically fluent Mandarin even though Anna and Peter only spoke Malay. Like they didn't speak this language and now she's she's having a seizure and she's speaking a different language. And so Peter is like, what is happening here? And he's looking at his wife like completely bewildered. But then she she kind of break through and she grabbed Peter and then she said two words that he actually did understand in Mandarin. She basically shouted, "Help me." And so Peter, he scooped his wife up and he just ran out of his house and ran next door to his neighbor's house.

His neighbor's name was Aman, and Aman practiced witchcraft, which is seen as a form of folk medicine in Malaysia. Now Peter was not particularly a believer in witchcraft, but it's like 5:00 in the morning, it's right next door, he doesn't know what's happening to his wife. He's thinking, let's just try to help my wife as fast as possible. I'll go to Aman, and if he can't help us, then I'll go, you know, travel to a hospital. It was just sort of like how can I help my wife as soon as possible.

Let's go to Aman. And so he goes to Aman's house. He's carrying his wife who by now has stopped seizing. She's gone limp. She's not making any sounds. She's she's still breathing, but she's just laying there limp, not speaking. There's no more Mandarin. It's quiet. He's pounding on the door, Peter is, and Aman, he opens it up and he looks out and Peter's like, you got to help me. Like, you know, I don't know what's going on with my wife. She's she's having a seizure. Like he's trying to quickly explain what's going on here.

And Aman, he like steps back. He's he's looking at Peter and and Anna in his arms, and he's he's he's visibly scared. He steps back into his house and he sort of stops Peter and he's like, "You don't have to tell me. I know what's going on here. There's a ghost like laying on Anna. There's a ghost on your wife's body. I've never seen this before. I I don't know if I can help you." And Peter's like, "What are you talking about? Like she's having a medical emergency here.

Is there anything you can offer? Is there any medicine, anything you can do here?" Like he's not ready to digest what Aman has said about there's a ghost on my wife. He's just trying to get help really quickly. And so Aman, he's still kind of scared and he's definitely looking at Anna like there's something going on with her that's really upsetting to him. But he eventually says, "You know, I I have an idea. Why don't you bring her in? I have a ritual that I think will help us communicate with this ghost."

And again, Peter, he's in full-blown crisis mode here. He doesn't necessarily think this is the right pathway to helping his wife, but he's got little choice here. He's like, "You know what? I'm going to go in here. I'm going to do this ritual and very quickly, if it's not working, I'm going to leave and bring her to the hospital." And so into the house he goes.

Half an hour later, as the sun was just starting to rise, Peter and Aman were now outside in this tent in the in the front yard of Aman's house with Anna lying on the ground inside of this tent between the two men. And Anna, you know, she clearly was breathing, but she was not again having, you know, that seizure. She wasn't spouting off Mandarin or or Malay for that matter. She wasn't talking at all. But now she had been positioned for this this ritual that Aman had in mind to to try to communicate with this ghost.

And again, Peter's going along with it, but already he's thinking like, what am I doing here? I got to get out of here. But Aman told him like, let me just try. Let me just try doing this. And so the two men, they're in position, and you know, Aman looked at Peter and said, "Are you ready? Are you ready to do this this ritual?" Peter took a deep breath and he's like, "Okay. Yes." And then Aman, he he began sprinkling turmeric powder on Anna's body along with these these grains of rice.

And as he was doing this, he began asking her to speak, asking the the ghost, the entity to speak. And Anna, she began to move. She began to twitch and then she opened her mouth. But when she spoke, it was that same like indecipherable mix of languages. It was it was Mandarin, it was Malay, but it was it was a lot of Mandarin and it was just it sounded like gibberish really to Peter and also to Aman as well. Like they didn't know what she was saying and she was clearly getting frustrated.

She was like trying to to tell them something and they were just kept asking more questions and it's like her body starting to to tense some more and there's this look of terror on Anna's face. And so eventually when both Peter and Aman felt like like we are not doing much here, we've gotten her to speak or the ghost to speak in Aman's opinion, but like we don't know what she's saying. And so Aman's like, "Hold on." to Peter. "I'm going to get my neighbor. He speaks Mandarin.

He'll know what she's saying if that's what she's saying." And so Peter's left in the tent with his wife who's like shaking on the ground and she's saying things to him and he's got no idea what they mean. And she looks so frustrated and so scared. And then a moment later, Aman comes back in the tent and he's you know, brought along this guy who is now their translator. He speaks fluent Mandarin. And as soon as he's in the tent with them, you know, he's sort of been briefed up on on what's going on here and he's remarkably calm all things considered.

I mean, this is a pretty crazy thing that's going on here. But he quickly understands the assignment and once Aman, you know, sprinkles more powder and drops more rice on Anna and gets her to really come forward and say what you got to say, you know, the ghost is really who he's talking to here, she begins speaking more and more and more and this time the translator, he's listening to her and he's hearing her her story and he's sort of bewildered by it. And he's relaying it to Aman and to Peter through the neighbor.

Anna, what she was saying in Mandarin, was that she was not actually Anna. She was in fact a 17-year-old girl named Chong Ming. She said that she was from China, but she been going to a school in a town in Malaysia close to where Anna and Peter lived. And three days ago, she said she had been hit by a truck and killed. But her spirit had come back and possessed Anna's body. That's what was happening now because she needed them to go to the police. When Anna finally finished speaking, like when she was done telling the story that was translated through the neighbor to to Peter and to Aman, Anna, like actual Anna, it was like she she came back.

You know, she suddenly was like breathing really heavily and she's looking up at her husband Peter with this totally bewildered look in her eyes. And for the first time since all of this had started a couple of hours ago, Peter felt like he was looking at his wife again. Like she was back. And so Peter, he asked Anna, "Are you okay?" And Anna, you know, speaking in her normal voice, speaking in Malay, she's like, "Oh my god, like what happened?" And she throws her arms around him and she just sobs into his shoulder.

Like she's just so upset. She's scared, but she clearly doesn't even know what's just happened. And Peter, he doesn't know what's just happened. He's just glad it's over. He's glad his his wife appears to be back. And for a minute, he was just holding her, you know, consoling her. And then at a certain point, she leaned back and she's looking around realizing where she is, you know, who's in the tent with them. And she's like, "What's going on?" And Peter and Aman and also the translator would, you know, tell her what they witnessed, what she was saying and and this crazy story about how she was just possessed by this girl, you know, who was killed by a truck.

And as they're telling her this, you know, Anna was getting more and more frightened. Like this was not helping her at all. This was making it way worse. And so Peter, like he told his wife, "Don't worry. We'll tell them everything. It's going to be just fine." But inside Peter was thinking as he and Aman and the translator and his wife as they're making their way to go tell the police, he was thinking to himself, "What's going to happen here is we're going to we're going to go to the police.

We're going to tell them and they're going to tell us that no, like no no girl was hit by a truck a few days ago. This this didn't happen." And he's thinking that's going to be comforting to know that this didn't happen. This is like I don't know what this is, but it's not real. However, they go to the police. And so while they're telling the story to the officer, Peter's thinking like how ridiculous this sounds. Like they're going to think we're crazy. But to his surprise, Peter's surprise, at the end of the story being passed along to the to the officer, the officer says, "You know, I don't know what to make your story, but I'll say that three days ago there was a fatality.

There was a 17-year-old young Chinese girl who was hit by a truck and killed and we arrested the driver of that truck. Like we're waiting to to pursue charges against that guy." And when he said that, Anna, who, you know, ever since coming out of her trance had acted exactly like herself this whole time from tent over to the police station, she she'd been acting like herself, it was like a a switch had flipped. and she was back to being the spirit of Chong Ming. Her body began to twitch and she began speaking in Mandarin all over again.

And the translator, who was with them, just began automatically translating into Malay. So the officer and Peter and Aman could understand. The words that were coming out of Anna's mouth that seemed an awful lot like the the words of of the spirit of Chong Ming, this young girl who had died, were that she was she was begging this police officer not to to pursue charges against the man who drove the truck that killed her, but instead to do the opposite. To let him go. That this was not his fault.

That this this wasn't even an accident. She had wanted to die. She explained, again, the voice of Chong Ming coming through Anna, through this translator, explained that she had she had broken up with her boyfriend and she was so distraught, she had thrown herself in front of that truck. And the truck driver had even swerved to avoid her and she had leapt to make sure she was struck by the truck. She had taken her own life. It was not his fault and they needed to let him go.

Moments later, Anna became herself again. She was she was no longer possessed by Chong Ming. And she's again, like, what just happened? And everyone's kind of looking at each other like, what's going on here? And and as unbelievable as this whole series of events were, the police, they ultimately did look more closely at the accident that had claimed the life of that 17-year-old girl whose name was Chong Ming. And they found there was a witness who had not come forward to that point who said, actually, yeah, I saw that girl jump in front of the truck.

She definitely did this to herself. And so the driver was released. Now, no one has ever actually been able to fully explain how in the world Anna, who did not know Chong Ming, somehow knew all these details of this crash. But whether you believe in ghosts or not, it was Anna's story, or more specifically the story that came through her, Chong Ming's story if you will, that closed this case.

A quick note about our stories. They are all based on true events, but we sometimes use pseudonyms to protect the people involved and some details are fictionalized for dramatic purposes.

The MrBallen Podcast: Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories is hosted and executive produced by me, MrBallen. Our head of writing is Evan Allman. Produced by Jeremy Bolan and Cole Lacassio. This episode was written by Kate Murdoch. Research and fact-checking by Shelley Shue, Samantha Van Heus, Evan Beamer, Abigail Shumway, Camille Callahan, Alex Paul, Ben Facciano. Research and fact-checking supervision by Steve Neer. Audio editing and post-produced by Whit Lacassio and Jordan Stidham. Production support by Antonio Manata and Delana Corley. Artwork by Jessica Cloxton Kiner. Theme song Something Wicked by Ross Bugden.

Thank you for listening to the MrBallen Podcast. And just a reminder, every new and exclusive episode we put out on the MrBallen Podcast, you can also now watch on the MrBallen YouTube channel that very same day. And trust me, some of these stories you truly have to see to believe. Again, my YouTube channel is just called MrBallen. If you want to listen to episodes one week early and add free, you can subscribe to SiriusXM Podcast Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit siriusxm.com/podcastplus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice.

So, that's going to do it. I really appreciate your support. Until next time, see you.

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